StormNexus

Hey. Was just thinking, how about we change that spell a bit ? I play a mage too, and that might be extreme good spell . What if we make it :

current spell: paralyze + some small damage.

new version:
- delete that paralyze, so the spell will not paralyze anymore.
- change damage a bit, lets say, let it deal around 30 magic damage each round, depends on build .
- can be only disabled by dispell spells (not the clarity)
Spell would become another offensive spell not disabling one .

That sounds crazy indeed, but on the other hand it might be worth of rethink, since its lev 9 spell and some people don't use that, too not ruin the fun for others . Also that would equal mages to other caster classes, leave em with same possibility to kill with rolls of 1 .
Chears Raf

No offense meant, but mages don't need any new offensive spells, unless they do about 400 damage a cast. You may have missed it in your other topic, but FoxFuzz hit the nail on the head as to why hand is used, and why it really should stay as it is.



That's been my primary argument for the spell since day 1, and I think its pretty convincing one. As it is, Crushing Hand is the only spell in a mage's arsenal that has a shot at disabling someone, even if its just for a minute. Even then, between clarity, freedom, RDD, PM, there's a host of ways to prevent it from ever being an issue, but even after all that, it gives you a better chance than fishing for ones on an implosion or flesh to stone.

I think it would be a mistake to change the spell. Changing the level 7 version I could buy into, but I'm not sure why whenever the topic of nerfing comes up that the mages are the ones who always need to suffer. Nerf healing, and then we can talk.

Yea there is ways around it I think the lvl 9 bigby spell is quite fine. I mean its like asking to nerf stun on a stunner monk. Just my opinion lets leave them be. I have a pally make a pure pally put freedom on ya hit them with the lovely holysword and knock them senseless. They will be worrying about rebuffing while you are hacking away and run while another toon finishes the job. there's many ways around it. NOt many pure pallys around like me Sylar. But do different strageties like make a pally. or such. don't nerf b/c its a lethal spell if your not ready up for a mage. also on note i believe i might have to retry it but the holysword also is able to debuff that. so you see an ally hit them once with the sword debuff or a few times. . Thats one thing you have to keep in mind that mages can't debuff off a pally if i am thinking correctly.

My main caster doesnt use this spell, not because I have anything against it, simply because he is a fisher of ones and wail is a much more useful spell there... (after you take out 2 players with the same wail you'll understand... after you get back to your chair that is...)

I wouldnt mind a worthy dmg spell, however, 30 dmg per round is not worthy...
Most chars regen about 20 dmg per round, so 10 dmg for a lvl 9 spell people are going to laugh at the mage just for wasting 3 seconds casting it...

As Tuecer said, a heal spell would undo any dmg the mage is doing and it's easy to predict it, as mages cant crit...
More over, heal kits are enough to out heal a single mage...

Mages dont do more dmg then a melee or an AA, they do more dmg to those with very high AC or large groups, however their dmg is a constant, not a burst... unlike weapon weilding chars that have a chance to do atleast double dmg at times.

Mages dispel, mages counter, mages produce a steady stream of dmg, mages time stop, mages 5% club bonk people, mages grip.

There are a million and one ways to become immune to the grin hand, and another million and one ways to remove it from a trapped friend.

Most people dont know, but this spell was already nerfed twice..
Once it's DC was lowered by 10 and once his duration was shortened by a minute.

Keep your ents up and that's it, mord is the ONLY spell that can remove it and it feeds of the same spell level as the grip, 8 ents in a fight is all you need to deplete the mage's level 9 spell casts...

I'm with everyone else here on this one. While my primary mage doesn't use that spell, my alt does. My primary is the "5% club" mage, looking for ones with a handful of spells I favor. My other mage does use that spell. I look at it as a way to stop clerics from healing, or tanks from bashing for a short time. I mean short time, because usually there is another cleric around to free them. But, in the meantime, it gives me time to do some damage that isn't offset by healing or a heal spell.

Now, I do refrain from using it on PC's if the numbers are uneven. However, it remains an option in bigger fights. I have builds made to avoid this spell, simply because I have seen the need. If I'm on with another character who isn't immune, and I get caught, then my bad. I have ways to avoid it. And honesty, I usually do.

I think the spell should be left as is. It's already been nerfed a bit, and the level 7 has as well. As it stands, there are loads of options to deal with hand spells. Honestly, I seen other things that are harder to avoid. Stuns from well built monks, or worst of all, the deadly duration of assassin stuns. Ouch!

Just gotta say: If you don't have a person in your party who can't counter a bigbys, you shouldn't be entering combat.
Pretty much anyone can counter the level 9 bigbys if they know what they're doing.

I see my idea and point had been down to an argue of holding enemies in fight . Thats totaly not what i meant. And Vesya everyone know that simple ants thought protect from it .

My point was, every one use the same old spells, and thats soo borning, magic missle, fire arrow, vampiric touch deleyed fireball, chain lighting (offensive) and some others that i finded usless. So my idea was just to resize mages arsenal of spells, since there are no other good spells .

Its a nice idea, but if you want to improve the mage's arsenal, try focusing on spells they don't use and improve them instead of using ones people do use.