StormNexus

I think it boils down to numbers if you have a toon out numbered say three or four to one its not very sporting (in my view) to cast disabling spells bigbys/stone to flesh and so on or stunning fist.Just on a separate track for a moment i think perhaps some spells damage could be increased to give mages another option,but sadly at the moment in most cases at the moment all a mage can do is cast disabling spells.Now people make there toons so they have high fort and so on its hard for them to be disabled leaving the caster with the option of spamming a certain spells to get a one,perhaps (and im not saying it should happen)maybe certain mage spells can be give more punch so spell casters have other options.Im keen to here what you guys think.

Cheers Smegsey.

Wow useless? really? Have you ever fought Pedro? I believe you would change your mind. He doesn't use bigbys, or stone to flesh, or any of those spells, he just does pure raw damage, and trust me anyone that fought him or fought beside him can't say he is useless at all. With 3 damage spells he can kill someone, and you think its better to fish for ones, or using disabling tactics that can be easily broken with a ent that most mages can't even dispel? Wow how many mages have you played so far? Really any mage would be much more usefull if he didn't wasted his spells fishing for ones, or disabling chars with bigbys, they just think its safer, so they do it, a advice to all mages learn the times of spells, use counter spells when its the right time and damage all you can, don't go on disabling tactics any cleric can take it out with a spell, take full advange of what mages got best, and that is making damage.

Yeaaaa that was definitely what went through my mind when I would get stunned/stoned/handed/hit by a finger of death.

Anyways, as always, I find myself in agreement with both Catalyst and FoxFuzz.
Wuv ya.

sorry earaldor but i think you never fought a cleric with your mage or maybe you just found clerics that forgot they can actually heal

Yeah your right i never pvped in my life really, only fought cute little bears and kitties.

Wow i sense you didnt liked my observation,and was not my intention to offend you really.
But sorry ,if you say you can kill a cleric with 3 damage spells you found an awesome build or you found poor clerics,thats what im saying.

This discussion is great - but will hopefully remain inconclusive

My point is that if you take away stunning fist from monks it will nerf a lot of monk builds, and make playing less fun for some players; if you take away the ability for casters to fish for ones then a lot of caster builds are nerfed, and will make playing less...; and the same can be said for just about any tactic out there.

A couple of observations: DC casters can be effective in pvp - it's just that you can't gamble on fortitude saves for an effective build, which leaves will saves; damage dealing casters are also effective in pvp. But both of these builds need backup, and, of course, aren't effective against all other builds.

It's possible we have a balance, but it's also possible that raids are "unbalanced" just by the nature of the builds that are involved and the numbers invading/defending. It always seems that the big raids are the most fun (raids with 3+ attackers/defenders) - the ones where there are few attackers and defenders just end up as a scissor rock stone game But, that's the nature of the game and shows a certain "balance" in itself.

Let's not nerf any builds please, but I think we all know what can be fun and not fun for players... so let's try to stick with a sense of fun for all.

'Useless' may have been an exaggeration on my behalf, but the point is still valid, even in the case you provide. With 3 damage spells you can kill someone? Funny that, because with one I can heal them. -That- is the point I was making.



I do? While I can take semi-aggressive comments or posts or even jabs, I will not tolerate words being put into my mouth. I never once said that using such tactics were better, but simply pointed out that they are what is used for a number of reasons. One being that a defensive mage has -time- to fish for ones, especially if he's behind a wall or on high ground. In some cases, said mage can easily blow through a wad of spells, rest, come back and re-fish(for ones) before progress is made on behalf of the attackers. ((Oh, and while it's easy to say "But the Free don't count as attackers!" I've done it on defense versus all 3 factions.)

So at the risk of sounding like a douche myself, 'Calm down and don't take it personal.' I am not shooting down Pedro's usefulness or your ability to play, but I am making a general observation of the fact that Heal > Damage (Magic or Melee) and in cases like that, disabling becomes almost 'necessary' to help turn the tide of battle. To change this current staple, an almost full re-work would need to be done to further balance class combo's and abilities. While I think that the way things are are currently unbalanced still, I've also come to learn that you either deal with it and, A) Make an appropriate Counter Build, B) Don't PVP or C) Play on another server or different game.

Of course, there's always suggestions that could be made to help improve or balance things (hence the point of this thread) but again, it becomes a delicate game of balance. If Devastating Critical appeared on the server again, what kind of outcry would we hear from, say, Stealthers? Mages? Clerics? That's a drastic example, but even the changes to something like "Gate" have altered play style and gave more love to the server's already favorite class; Mages.

That is, unless you're a DWD Cleric/Tank.

-FoxFuzz

While the intent of this thread was admirable. The subject matter has drifted from constructive to combative.

You're DM/Admin team is CONSTANTLY looking for ways to balance, tweak and refresh all the classes, especially caster classes. Hence the Druid spell changes thread.

Many thanks to all who participated.

Lockage, even if it's for a day or two.